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Stage1 Map- intercooler?

5.3K views 11 replies 3 participants last post by  mike1967  
#1 ·
I have a low mileage 2011 N18 Cooper-S with ITG panel filter and de-res boost pipe.
I wasn’t planning on any mods as my wife mainly drives it but I’ve booked in for a remap (for alittle more go but mainly to make the power smoother) in the next couple of weeks.

I’ve read alot of posts about intercoolers and I’m on the fence whether I would actually need to upgrade.
The general vibe I get seems to be it’s not nessesary for commuting and the occasional 20-30minute blast down the back roads??
The tuner reckons we’ll see about 30hp gain (215bhp) as it the downpipe that restricts the power.

Just looking for opinions really..... ?
 
#2 ·
if you think of the system as a big pump, you know if if you restrict the inlet pipe size it slows down the effect same as the exhaust side, bigger intercooler is a must for max power as colder the inlet air flow makes it more dense so when fuel and turbo pressure added increases the fuel air flow and mix etc, the n18 engine has twin vanos so can be mapped in more ways than most ie tuner for years have encourage a thing called scavenge effect where inlet valves and exhaust valves are run open at a point to add exhaust effect where it helps to suck in new air because of the exhaust gases leaving, mappers can as long as timing chain is not worn increase this while adding more boost and more fuel pulses add this to a sport cat and bigger bore exhaust and k n panel filter could get more than the 215bhp, but all needs to be well, ie timing chains on turbo cars after 50k tend to be getting stretched effect timing. divertor valve on turbo also gets weak,, we have 2 cooper s mini's in family both over 120.000 miles both mapped both on second chain kits and valves. both are running over 200bhp so much better to drive as long as every thing is all working as it should,, trying to map a car with chain stretch tends to end up badly melted cats pistons head gaskets etc, ask them to check the chain timing before adding power if were me. as for intercooler its always going to be better with colder inlet air and would have some gains but needs to be fitted before mapping so it can be mapped in to the car as such to avoid lag
added point there are turbo upgrades cooper works below links
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Genu...P-2012-Sale/172347393462?epid=1785760712&hash=item2820b485b6:g:dZsAAOSwYIxX357b
 
#3 ·
#4 ·
Thank you for taking the time to post mike it is greatly appreciated.
We’ve owned the car for around four weeks, bought from a main Mini dealer with 12mth warranty. The next day following the 7hr round trip I gave the car a good inspection. I felt the engine was ticking over louder than expected & there was a sequel at idle when warmed up. ?
A long story short I got a new ‘metal’ water pump as the plastic one was failing and the master tech found the chain was 1mm beyond tolerance. Therefore they also replaced the chain for the upgraded shorter unit with longer tensioner all under warranty. ?
The car has only covered 16,000 miles and I’m happy that it is now sorted for enhancements! As I said I’m not looking for big power and £350 for an Airtec cooler is way more than I’d be comfortable spending given the outlay for the map.
On one hand I hear the bigger the better so you’d look at the Airtec unit. Then you see the ‘same size’ non branded unit for around £200 and think why spend the extra £150!! ...but then you read posts saying the standard cooler is way more capable than you think and only if you progress onto cai and full exhausts do you need to upgrade!?? My head is battered ?
 
#6 ·
your car is the lowest timing chain replacement i have known so far and its good the garage sorted it as that could of been a £800 bill further down the road. bigger is better with intercoolers has more surface area cools the air better cold air is more dense so can add more fuel molecules gives more power, you cant over cool it standard cooler works well 200bhp easy, bigger one might gain 10bhp within the remapping if was being done on rolling road set up rather than on a known good map type mapping.. the way it works the mapper gets in a low miles car maps it on the rolling road then saves the file then clones the settings to every car like that car in the future,, where rolling road mapping is a standalone map for that one car with the owners wishes, ie fuel economy or more low end power or spread out power, or max power and dont care if goes bang one day kind of a map, peugeot use the same engine in their rcz 269bhp
Peugeot RCZ
Engine 1.6 THP200 straight-4 (Turbo) 2.0 HDi FAP 163 PS straight-4 1.6 156 PS petrol 1.6 270 BHP Turbocharged EP6CDTR
so that would say the engine can run a lot more power than mini run it at in my book.
 
#7 ·
Yeah, by the sounds of it the engine is capable of more given the bigger turbo and cooler.
Mike It’s obvious you have a wealth of knowledge regarding these little mini beasts, would you be put off by a non branded intercooler?
From my limited experience I just can’t see the justification spending an extra £164 buying an Airtec over the likes of the same size Direnza unit (for example). ?
 
#8 ·
there are a few things you need to take on board. first off you mentioned car has a main dealer warranty on it which i you modify the car it gives them a way out of any future cover just thought i should point that out to you, its less likely they will detect a remap but i would think would spot and bigger intercooler but this said there is still a chance that say if car came in under cover for a running issue and they plug in ecu to read it, it will show up in the files what dates and changes made in the map,
as for branded or not branded thats a hard one its all about surface area and sizes of gallery's ie where the air flows through to be cooled, so larger inter cooler will have bigger surfaces and also bigger stored air as such which helps keeping air longer so cools better in theory,
i would look at specs like for like print them off and see which has bigger surface area or physical size and also the size of the gallery tubes which bigger means more flow.
personally i buy stuff on price compared to other products,, ie just replace the turbo on our clubman, genuine one £800 a garret gt15v turbo new on ebay £380. but a refurb unit with 24 months come back i paid £170 i have over the years fitted hundreds of these turbo's as good as a geniune one in my view,, just avoid stuff from china unless you know its specs, but something like a inter cooler no moving parts just compare specs cant go wrong i think
 
#9 ·
The warranty thing is a good point in consideration and you are correct the huge cooler would defo set off alarm bells. I had hoped the car would now be spot on and that I could even dodge a HPFP problem given that’s the only ‘other’ big issue left!! ?
The other is the wife, and her reluctance to let me loose on this one. Especially given she mainly drives it. I think I’ve been lucky with the green light on remap but that was on the premise of a far better drive and not balls out power! ?
It’s been good talking mike, I appreciate your time, experience and opinions! ??
 
#10 ·
its the from idle to boost on the turbo that is the part that makes them so much better lets you stay in higher gears for longer, i've worked on rolling road mapping cars in the past i also live map my own cars still but still have access to exhaust gases machine, and the best kind of map is early boost and spread the power out. stage 1 should do this should end up with around 200bhp that engine will run that all day long. but when you start getting up around 230-250bhp clutches tend to get swamped by it,, one other little tip for you is 100 miles before service put a can of seafoam in the oil before changing it it will clean out all the crud link below for both types one is inlet spray worth giving a spray in inlet every few thousand miles helps to keep carbon down on rear of valves as common problem with direct injections petrols, ie use the tube that come with can push in to the rubbber pipe above the throttle body then start car rev at 3k while spraying it in 1 second bursts over a 2 minute time spell then switch engine off leave it over night to soak 9 times from 10 will remove it before it starts to get to bad,, on your mileage would work well. not that effective when its built up 20mm thick then its manifold off and either clean with brush and seafoam and rag or get blasted at £80-£120 prevention is always a better thing i think.
below inlet spray
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEA-FOAM...c-Converter/351244572526?epid=2253788428&hash=item51c7ced76e:g:l4kAAOSwRLZUEahg
below link oil treatment can put in spray bottle use as a engine cleaner turbo and erg etc works a treat
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SEA-FOAM...-Stabiliser/153015223381?epid=2165148686&hash=item23a06b0455:g:gzgAAOSwjL5ZLpVC
below link twin pack
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-CAN-KI...EAFOAM-SRAY/253102669524?epid=2185630474&hash=item3aee183ed4:g:OEUAAOSwCdJZlwY9
 
#11 ·
If you do go with the map but leave the IC, so it is 'invisible', one other thing I'd raise is the possibility that if you take it to a main dealer and they plug in 'to download the latest software mods or whatever', there is a strong lilelyhood they will (inadvertantly) overwrite your map and re-apply the standard one.

When/if I take my mapped diesel Volvo C30 to the main dealer I am insistent that they do not download anything. They can suck, but not blow ..... if you see what I mean.
 
#12 ·
i''ve seen that a few times people lose their £500 map due to ecu updates and also by mechanics that work at main dealers having orders from above to plug in and compare the date on the ecu software to date car was born two minute job , worked at audi and on the v6 tfsi engines they use a lot of oil and more if mapped so these were always checked by order of factory due to customers complaining about oil use as a way to counter any claim by the customer if making claims for new engine,, also the tfsi v6 engine when mapped is soooo fast.
new volvos now have a software linked with factory over the internet so cant buy vida and expect it to work on new volvos now, and seems all ,makers are heading that way